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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Hi everyone, I finally had some time to play around with this some more. Gary, I think you nailed what it was that was bothering me about my first attempt. I've extended the plane up and made some adjustments to the lighting on one of the sides. I like this much better. I am enjoying this thread very much.
Attachment 86716
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
I think you and everyone else is doing great with the "variations on a theme" regarding this month's tutorial, Frances.
Now, just to mix it up a little: I've attached a vector trace of the green glass icosahedron, as it seems visually interesting, at least to me. I used Vector Magic, probably the most advanced bitmap tracing program out there today.
The reason I did this, is I'd like to offer a view to members of what the thing looks like when a computer program sort of posterizes the continuous tone image. I know I can learn from it, and perhaps others can, too. Look at how the green light accumulation, the Fresnel effect, is drawn at the lower right of the object.
Use the color sampler (eyedropper) tool to sample some of the colors. I discovered that the colors are a lot duller than I thought, and this is because our eye/brain perception is inaccurate when it comes to evaluating the saturation, the purity, of color we see. It's part education, part biological.
But I digress. I think the auto-trace is an interesting way to look at an emotionless dissection of a photorealistic image. By looking at the steps Vector Magic used to create the shadow, I can learn how falloff in light can be recreated.
Attachment 86738
Have fun with this thing. Because if you don't, it's pointless work! :) Yuck!
My Best,
—Gary
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Gary thanks for the extra lessons you are providing in this thread. Really makes me think about seeing rather than looking.
I was not going to post the attachment because it did not turn out as I had planned. However sometimes it may be that what evolved may be better in some ways than our plans would have produced.
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Hi Bill—
I think you're in the middle or an experiment, not at the final frame, so to speak, with regards to the image you attached. Philosophically, I'm totally with you on the evolution of a piece. But I think you're SO close to achieving something "World Class", if you're up for it, do continue.
Suggestion? Blur a copy of the background, and then let it gradate from the diffuse original at the bottom of your drawinjg, to the blurry copy at top.
This would be my own experiment based on an idea your piece gave me—to encourage depth of field in it by blurring the most optically distant point in your piece.
Or...
it's Friday and we could go out bar-hopping.
You call,
Gary
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Thanks very much for the advice Gary. I will continue with the drawing.
Bar hopping would be good too. Although my 'day time job' may not like it. I work from 4 pm to 11 pm today then need to be back at work by 7 am tomorrow morning.
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
I have been so busy lately that I haven't had time to take part is these discussions only follow them. @Bill, that is cool. @Gare, thanks for all the tips and additional challenges. I hope I can contribute something soon.
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Just playing around with this shape but I liked this particular stage, complete with lines so I hope you don't mind me posting it. :D
Stygg
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Actually, I like its expression exactly as you submitted it.
Art is supposed to have feeling, right? Your version immediately made me feel cold, and a little like I'm in a dream-like state. A pleasant dream, you know?
I LOVE the diversity we're getting as far as personal expression goes on this topic!
Anyone else feel the same way?
As though this is a gallery of Personal Polyhedrons?
I'm very impressed that you made a personal expression out of art that looks deceptively simple, Stygg.
My Best,
Gary
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Actually, I got the same impression as Gary......but I think one line might be missing from the drawing.....on the right lower part of the drawing it seems to be missing one triangle.....I would send a quick addition to it but being at work, I'm not allowed to upload to the site.
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
I think I'm going to have dreams of triangles tonight, Ed. I completely missed that facet you saw...which sort of begs the question, "If it looks right, then isn't it right?"
I have no idea what I'm going to do to follow up this month's tutorial...
We'll see,
-g-
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Your dead right, I did miss a triangle out :o I thought I was getting forgetful so went to the Docs., he said don't worry about it, it's a new syndrome called twitching triangles and feather my shadows, caused by looking at to many poly-deca. shapes, just keep taking the G.B. medicine and you'll be ok in a few days :D
Stygg
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Hah!
Cosmically, the omission really was trivial, Stygg. That is to say, your design stood up to the eye for aesthetic, if not technical (nit-picky) merits, as it was.
Next month, I'm going to ask you all to draw a non-sided polyhedron. You might want to buy a book on metaphysics as your guide. I did write one, and it's really good, but it's not for sale in this dimension.
My Best,
—Gary
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Cheers Gary, I'll see if the Time Lords can get me a copy. It's good to see there is a sense of humour in the zone, it makes life so easier. :D
Stygg
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
I have to find time to do a dodecathingamujig, you guys are all impressing me with your variety and imagination
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Hi Stygg,
I happened to notice it, though it took a few looks before it twigged. I agree with Gary on this that it is trivial as it 'looks' right and doesn't take away from the awesomeness of the feel of the drawing. My nitpicky self just reared it's ugly head is all. To be honest, I can't do this stuff near 1/2 as well as almost everyone on this site.....and I certainly appreciate the efforts I see because of that fact.
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Here, I'll simplify this tutorial so that an 8-year old will immediately "get it".
This is Mr. Icosa Head. He works at a bank, which partially explains the ugly suit. In the morning...
Attachment 86779
Attachment 86781
—Gary
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Karateed
Hi Stygg,
I happened to notice it, though it took a few looks before it twigged. I agree with Gary on this that it is trivial as it 'looks' right and doesn't take away from the awesomeness of the feel of the drawing. My nitpicky self just reared it's ugly head is all. To be honest, I can't do this stuff near 1/2 as well as almost everyone on this site.....and I certainly appreciate the efforts I see because of that fact.
No problem what so ever Ed, I'm glad you did notice it so I could put it right, after all that's what posting is for, feed back of all kind and your so called nitpicky was not an ugly head but something you noticed and quite rightly brought it to my attension. :D
Cheers for that Ed,
Stygg
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Karateed
To be honest, I can't do this stuff near 1/2 as well as almost everyone on this site.
Get stuck in Ed, you might be surprised at what you can achieve, I most certainly was :)
Gary, you have succeeded in your mission to educate and inspire. :thx
Looking forward to the next "toot" :D
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Oh, I only made the bomb, I didn't drop it, Drwyd.
All I've done is set a tone. If no one followed it, we'd have the same forum as many others.
Who has posted the most work here? Not me.
Who have engaged others with praise and accurate critiques? Not me, not always.
Give yourselves a big hand for helping to build an intellectually mature, positive, helpful place to come to share, teach, and learn.
I couldn't be happier about this seed I had, that's taking root through everyone else's nurturing.
—Gary
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Very well said Gary! When all members of the community work together with each other the community flourishes. :D
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Gare,
Here it is my attempt to create the object without copy it from a picture and trying to think where lights and shadows should be.
I'm not sure about getting it, any comment and advice is more than really appreciated.
Best regards
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
That's pretty amazing! Beautiful!
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
I use this word very, very sparingly - that is awesome, Javier
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jvila
Gare,
Here it is my attempt to create the object without copy it from a picture
"attempt" means "to try".
What you did, Javier, is "accomplish"!
It is obvious from the image above that you understand reflections, transparency, shading, the Fresnel effect of light accumulating like is does with a lens, and perspective in the scene you reproduced.
Overall, your work is outstanding, and you get +20! :)
Advice?
1.) It's an icosahedron, and your file calls it a dodecahedron. You can hate me at any time for being petty about this comment! :)
2. I'd feel more "comfortable" with the scene if you cropped it more tightly instead of "floating" the surface upon which the icosahedron rests. You can still make the composition asymmetrical as you have done. I think the think that bothers me just a little, little, little, is the gradient you have in the background serves very little artistic purpose, so it steals from the wonderful polyhedron for interest. If you have only two elements in your composition—the tiles and the polyhedron, I have two things, and not three to look at and will enjoy the polyhedron more.
Make sense?
3.) Where do you want to go artistically from this point? You have learned a lot. With your talent, I would like to see something that is NOT a polyhedron. :) How can you take what you have learned about reflections, transparency and all that stuff, and make an original drawing?
Suggestion: draw come jewelry and make this study in reflecting facets of an object into the gem in the jewelry, like a woman's ring?
It is wonderful work. Now I want to see a variation on it, to show what you have learned.
I'm a difficult fellow to please, aren't I?
:)
—Gary
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
:-O That is very good indeed Jvila :-bd
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I'm going to nit-pick. The ONLY thing I don't like about the image is the repeating tile texture which should perhaps be repeat inverted so that you don't see the lines of the tile joins:
Attachment 86820
But really, I'm nit-picking. It's a truly excellent study :thx
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Wow, what a kind messages, thank you very much I really appreciate them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gare
"attempt" means "to try".
What
you did, Javier, is "accomplish"!
It is obvious from the image above that you understand reflections, transparency, shading, the Fresnel effect of light accumulating like is does with a lens, and perspective in the scene you reproduced.
As you can imagine I made a lot of try and error to achieve it, this kind of object are very difficult to know what is shown in every facet due to reflections, etc, I think you need to be an expert in math to know it, I think I need to work more on solid object until I perfectly understand how lights and shadows work together
Overall, your work is outstanding, and you get +20! :)
Advice?
Yes, that's the best part
1.) It's an icosahedron, and your file calls it a dodecahedron. You can hate me at any time for being petty about this comment! :)
You're right, I'm having some problems counting ;))
I'm uploading a new file with the correct name (in spanish)
2. I'd feel more "comfortable" with the scene if you cropped it more tightly instead of "floating" the surface upon which the icosahedron rests. You can still make the composition asymmetrical as you have done. I think the think that bothers me just a little, little, little, is the gradient you have in the background serves very little artistic purpose, so it steals from the wonderful polyhedron for interest. If you have only two elements in your composition—the tiles and the polyhedron, I have two things, and not three to look at and will enjoy the polyhedron more.
I'm not pretty sure of undertanding correctly what you mean:o with crop, I'm uploading a new file to see if this is what you mean, if it's not I can upload the xar file
Make sense?
I think so, in fact something in the image bugs me and I'm not able to realize what it is
3.) Where do you want to go artistically from this point? You have learned a lot. With your talent, I would like to see something that is NOT a polyhedron. :) How can you take what you have learned about reflections, transparency and all that stuff, and make an original drawing?
I had a go with spheres some time ago (http://www.talkgraphics.com/album.php?albumid=13), you can see them in my profile, I'm going to have a look at them and see if now I'm able to improve them, lets see
Suggestion: draw come jewelry and make this study in reflecting facets of an object into the gem in the jewelry, like a woman's ring?
I drew some of them some time ago (http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthre...ing&highlight=), some are from pictures and others not, diamond ones is just came from my mind, ring ones not, as the previous point I think I can improve it for instance adding the shadow concepts you've tought to us
It is wonderful work. Now I want to see a variation on it, to show what you have learned.
I'm a difficult fellow to please, aren't I?
:)
Better, there's only a way to improve
—Gary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
beretgascon
I'm going to nit-pick. The ONLY thing I don't like about the image is the repeating tile texture which should perhaps be repeat inverted so that you don't see the lines of the tile joins:
Attachment 86820
But really, I'm nit-picking. It's a truly excellent study :thx
Beretgascon,
I made a change let me know if it is better.
Best regards
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jvila
Beretgascon,
I made a change let me know if it is better.
Best regards
The tile looks better but it still looks like a towering building behind that great shape, use the mould tool to alter the tile. It will appear to be sitting on the tile rather than a bout to climb it.
Stygg
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Just so you can see how it would look with the tile altered, sorry I can't do those great fills as your shape has, but you can see how it would look, hope this helps :D
Stygg
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Here is what I am suggesting, folks. Javier, I cannot criticize your icosahedron—it by itself is terrific.
BUT...do we go to an art gallery and appreciate only one element of a painting? No.
Artists need to practice composition. How do all the elements direct the viewer's eye?
Today's bonus lesson :) is on how asymmetry is usually better than symmetry in a composition.
Javier, I have taken your latest post and simplified it to show you and others how the three elements in your composition appear.
You have a white background in back. First of all: why? White and light colors make reflections look dull. Your tiles that the icosahedron are resting on are right in the center of the white background. Why? Why should the tiles be centered so perfectly? Then your icasahedron is resting on the tiles, almost in the center of your composition.
By making everything of almost equal size and centered, you take away from the importance of the icosahedron, which should be the star, the hero, of your composition. Look at what I did, and don't laugh because I did it so quickly.
Obviously, the green icosahedron is the star of the composition. The tiles are second in importance and the background is nothing, it's black.
Attachment 86830
The lesson: let the part of your drawing that's the most important be in front, compose the picture asymmetrically so the vier's eye will go to the star of the drawing and stay there, don't let other elements be too important.
Also, look at the perspective of the tiles in the original images I posted. Look carefully, and use the Mould tool to make a very severe angle.
Don't let your icosahedron fall off the tiles! :)
I'm attaching a XAR file with the elements. Most of them are bitmaps, sorry!
—Gary
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Stygg,
Thank you very much for your recomendation, I'm uploading 2 files, the first one is modified according to your recomendation, the other one is just the object to show how the shadow is projected.
Best regards and thank you very much
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gare
Here is what I am suggesting, folks. Javier, I cannot criticize your icosahedron—it by itself is terrific.
BUT...do we go to an art gallery and appreciate only one element of a painting? No.
Artists need to practice
composition. How do all the elements direct the viewer's eye?
Today's bonus lesson :) is on how
asymmetry is usually
better than symmetry in a composition.
Javier, I have taken your latest post and simplified it to show you and others how the three elements in your composition appear.
You have a white background in back. First of all: why? White and light colors make reflections look dull. Your tiles that the icosahedron are resting on are right in the center of the white background. Why? Why should the tiles be centered so perfectly? Then your icasahedron is resting on the tiles, almost in the center of your composition.
By making everything of almost equal size and centered, you take away from the importance of the icosahedron, which should be the star, the hero, of your composition. Look at what I did, and don't laugh because I did it so quickly.
Obviously, the green icosahedron is the star of the composition. The tiles are second in importance and the background is nothing, it's black.
Attachment 86830
The lesson: let the part of your drawing that's the most important be in front, compose the picture asymmetrically so the vier's eye will go to the star of the drawing and stay there, don't let other elements be too important.
Also, look at the perspective of the tiles in the original images I posted. Look carefully, and use the Mould tool to make a very severe angle.
Don't let your icosahedron fall off the tiles! :)
I'm attaching a XAR file with the elements. Most of them are bitmaps, sorry!
—Gary
Gary, what can I say???, your comment is what I was expecting to, you sent the light, the artist's secret, you've showed me what it bugged me from the drawing, thank you very much, here it goes my last attempt following your advice
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Magnificent - this thread just gets better and better :thx
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Well I have certainly been enjoying this thread. It's given me some ideas, and some inspiration for sure :) Now I just need to find the extra time! :D
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
I see some very nice images as a result of this tutorial. Nice job everyone.
I've got to admit that, even though software video tutorials aren't my favorite, this has been one of the liveliest (given both replies & views) tutorial threads in a long time. Judging by that data, I'd say the tutorial is a winner. I'd still like to see some less seasoned XX, XXP, XP&GD, or XDP users give this a go and post their questions and/or results.
Good job Gary (and crew).
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
We're encouraging everyone, Harry, all skill levels.
Two things are going to happen quite soon: The Xara Outsider will carry a skinny on the monthly tutorials here, so registered users (IOW a spectrum of skill level users) can discover the tutorials and tg—not everyone knows we're here, although the number of hits this new area is getting is encouraging.
Also, we decided to make the tutorials public on YouTube. So we may attract people who don't know The Xara Xone or tg exists, strange, but sometimes it happens. So I'm packing the metadata with all sorts of Xara stuff so the spiders pick it up, and as the hits on the videos increase, we'll gain more prominence in searches.
We'll try to maintain the same standards I adhere to in future tutorials, rest assured.
And Barbara went to the store and bought me thee dozen audio pauses to put in the next video.
My Best,
—Gare
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Javier that looks good but the triangles particularly on the top faces do not seem to have a reason for being there. I suppose they could be reflections form somewhere we the viewer are not seeing but that seems unlikely. If they are the result of the icosahedron being transparent that is also unlikely. I guess I'll just have to do one like I think it should look like. So thank you for that.
EDIT: Looking again at what Gare posted, you did it perfectly.
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
Wizard, I agree with you, it is the result of changing the floor perspective, I change the floor but not the faces reflections, I should change it according actual conditions.
As soon as I'm free I'll do the changes
Best regards
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Re: The January 2012 Tutorial Discussion
I'm going to offer a redirection to the tutorial now.
Because I think we're polyhedroning ourselves into a pleasant stupor.
The video covered perspective, lighting, and texturing—on a planar, non-curved surface.
Is anyone game to take the attached Xara file and make it more photorealistic through texturing and shading? It's a quadrahedron by the way—a box :).
The perspective is accurate, but that's about it. If you want to flex your shading talents, I say go for it!
Attachment 86852
My Best,
—Gary
P.S. Here's a big-time technique/trick/revelation: if you draw a line exactly over any of the edges, and then use the Selector tool to extend the line exactly on the original line, you'll not only establish the perspective I used to draw it (a good enough study), but you'll also reveal the hidden line areas in the drawing, and could, in theory, design a glass box. It'd make a neat icon.